Sunday, May 29, 2005

Quotable Quotes from Left Field

There is no shortage of ‘Dumb Bush Quotes’ sites on the internet. They are everywhere. Visit one and you find silly phrases, grammatical errors, mistakes. But you will find nothing hateful -- no claims of Democratic rottenness, stupidity, or conspiracy. Nothing like "Harry Reid is a big fat liar!" Maybe of course the Democrats are just so nice that there’s nothing bad to say about them.

The Democrats do talk a lot though, so it’s easy to assemble some quotes. Here are some lines from the Dems’ top officials, starring DNC Chairman Howard Dean and backed up by a supporting cast of Senators and Congressman:

On Bush:
"I think this guy is a loser." - Sen. Harry Reid, D-NV

"He betrayed this country! He played on our fears! He took America on an ill-conceived foreign adventure dangerous to our troops, an adventure pre-ordained and planned before 9/11 ever took place!" - Al Gore

On Republicans:
"Their idea of equal rights is the American flag and Confederate swastika flying side by side." - Julian Bond, NAACP Chairman, on the Republican Party

"You think the Republican National Committee could get this many people of color in a single room? Only if they had the hotel staff in here." - Howard Dean

"There’s corruption at the highest level of the Republican Party." - Howard Dean

"I think Tom DeLay ought to go back to Houston where he can serve his jail sentence." -Howard Dean

On Terrorism:
"[Osama bin Laden has] been out in these countries for decades, building schools, building roads, building infrastructure, building day-care facilities, building health-care facilities, and these people are extremely grateful. We haven't done that." - Sen. Patty Murray, D-WA

"There was no imminent threat. This was made up in Texas, announced in January to the Republican leadership that war was going to take place and was going to be good politically. This whole thing was a fraud," - Sen. Kennedy, D-MA

"One could say that Osama bin Laden and these non-nation-state fighters with religious purpose are very similar to those kind of atypical revolutionaries that helped to cast off the British crown." - Marcy Kaptur, Democratic Representative from Ohio

"I'm the number one target of the White House. They can't get Osama bin Laden; they're going to get me." -Sen. Jean Carnahan, D-MO

On America:
"I was embarrassed to wear it." Sen. Feinstein, D-CA, talking about her American flag pin.

On Convictions:
"Republicans have painted us into a corner where they have forced us to defend abortion. I don’t know anybody who’s for abortion." - Howard Dean

"I’ve waffled before. I’ll waffle again."- Howard Dean

On Religious Thoughts:
"I cannot imagine that God, whoever He has or She has to worry about, is going to take the time to debate the filibuster in heaven." - Sen. Dick Durbin (D, IL)

"They could call Jesus a terrorist too. I mean, he was pretty tough on money lenders a time or two." - Ramsey Clark, former Democratic Attorney General

These are just a few choice selections of Liberal “thought.” It is fairly unfortunate for these Dems that they cannot claim that they were trying to say something else or that they got the words mixed up. It’s not the words that are confused -- it’s the ideas.


At 2:42 PM, Blogger Commander Mike said...

"But you will find nothing hateful -- no claims of Democratic rottenness, stupidity, or conspiracy."

"Currently in the works, an upcoming piece about Sen. Ted Kennedy and his Cold War ties to the KGB."

When contradictions attack--coming up at 11 on Fox News. It’s not the words that are confused -- it’s the ideas.

But first, a story on the size of my phallus, which is threatening to grow big enough to engulf the state of Illinois.

At 7:34 PM, Blogger Alec Brandon said...

You collect a grouping of quotes, many of which completely out of context, then label those as liberal thought. Except last time I checked, quotes from news conferences do not count as a representation of any movements guiding thoughts.

But this post pisses me off for a bigger reason. It is because you start out by saying, well lots of people do this, so I am going to do it. Now Bolton is reported to have made a quote along the lines of claiming that the UN is a dead organization. If you look at that whole quote in context, it is actually a pretty legitimate arguement. Now Bolton is a terrible nominee for many other reasons, but taking some quote from 10 years ago, and using it completely out of context does not disqualify the guy.

Another perfect example is the statements made by Harvard President Larry Summers. Taken out of context he may seem like a bigot, put into context they are perfectly legitimate, just not PC (though I'll get to that in a second).

So it seems you have a problem with people being characterized by lousy, out of context quotes, my suggestion is that you do not do the same thing in order to cast the Democratic party as something I am sure you whole-heartedly (yet fallaciously) believe it is.

As a matter of record you should have included links to the records of these speeches, so we could see how badly you screwed them over, but that would be asking too much, considering I am sure you went to 2 or 3 conservative websites and copy and pasted.

Now the issue of Political Correctness. So you have a number of quotes there that are perfectly argueable, yet seem to threaten what you would probably claim is an untouchable area of American politics. Such as relgion or republican effectiveness on anything ever. But what is the problem with making challenging statements on things that are taken for granted by society. It seem you are the one demanding political correctness when you debase Al Gore for making a correct statement about Iraq, except in your perfect world, no one is allowed to attack wars, because to do so, would be political incorrect (or at least your bastardized ignorantly conservative version of it).

Onto the actual quotes. The Al Gore quote is right, the plan was in place before 9/11, Bush did play on our fears, such as dropping the word uranium left and right, in order to infer a nuclearized Iraq (something impossible until 2011, and still incredibly unlikely).

Then the NAACP guy quote. He does not like the confederate flag, sure he may be saying a little too much with that, but in South Carolina, it was Republicans that tried to keep the flag there. So he made an unwarranted observation about all Republicans based on actions by some South Carolinans (its not something you haven't done, dozens of times per post, so I'd recomend you look at yourself before accusing others of the same fallacies, and I KNOW something is in the bible about that).

Then Howard Dean making a joke and attacking Tom DeLay...hes Howard Dean. I could quote some of the things Strom Thurmond and Jessie Helms have said over the past decade, but that would not get us anywhere, would it?

Then you give us the quote about Osama Bin Laden: The congresswoman is right, terrorist groups do lots for their people. Hamas and Hezbollah are famous for providing support for their people in a way that the United States has never done. I recomend you read this:

Then a Ted Kennedy quote, cross-apply what I said earlier about Jessie Helsm and Strom Thurmond, but if you tone down the rhetoric, some of the things he says are not out of bounds. Namely, that the war had incredible political advantages for Bush (which is incredibly apparent now, considering how popular he is at peace time, what were his approval ratings last time we checked, oh and how have Social Security and Stem Cell Research been playing with the average joe...yeah not too hot).

Then another quote about Osama Bin Laden. The quote starts out with, "One could say..." and obviously one could say. I could argue that both are non-state actors and both used differing forms of terror to achieve their ends. But more importantly, you are implying that somehow Democrats all love terrorists. Again, I'd be interested in the context of this, but alas you did not provide. And also, this is one insignificant Representative, who cares? Really does this quote prove anything about anything??

Then some insignificant quote by Carnahan.

Then Feinstein about being embaressed to wear an American Pin. You know I am pretty sure she did not just wake up one day and say that. She was probably embarressed for a reason. Like I would be embarressed to wear an American Flag pin if the United States massacred millions of innocent Mexicans. So where is your point?

The waffle quote: I don't see anything wrong with waffling on an issue. Bush has done it plenty of times, every person ever has done it. New information can make a stance stupid to hold, so you change that stance. That seems pretty rational to me.

Then something about God and filibuster, I don't get where you are going with this, it seems like a joke to me.

Then something rather scandalous about Jesus and terrorism, I would say you may prove something about the Democratic party now, if only Ramsey Clark had not been Attorney General in 1967! I could find so many terrible things that Republicans said then that it would make Ramsey Clark look like Jesus himself (and I WANT you to quote me out of context on that).

-Mr. Alec

At 11:08 AM, Blogger R said...

I'm sort of confused at the point of this entry. Are you trying to say that Democrats say dumb things? The only dumb and seemingly bad quotation on this whole post is that of Patty Murray, which, if you (or she) provided more context, would be more clear, because I can assure you she does not respect nor appreciate Osama Bin Laden. If she did, she'd be longggg gone.

But every other quotation seems to be, umm, what America is about. Please don't tell me there's anything wrong with calling our President a loser, or saying that the Iraq war was conjured before 9/11. That's called free speech..wink wink.

And a side note on the waffling...give it up. Nobody cares if people waffle. George W. Bush is the supreme waffler, one who went from a campaign of pure isolationism to that of world babysitter. It's old.

- Ryan

At 7:17 PM, Blogger Theorigamist said...

1) Stop being a tool.
2) This post has no content, makes no point, and is just one huge fallacy (or, as Commander Mike might say, a phallussy; keep on keeping on, Commander Mike).
3) Look, I can quote things, too (and I will take things out of context if need be; you don't appear to have any problem with that). By the way, you probably won't have to think very hard to guess where these quotes all come from (hint: you're an idiot):

"jurors should not sentence convicted murderers unless they are murderers themselves"
See what happens when you take things out of context?

"Perhaps the reason that so many people don’t know that women were exempt from the draft is that they don’t understand why they should be."
This doesn't even need explanation.

"My father’s speech was certainly (and I am reporting this in as unbiased a manner as possible) the wittiest and best introduction ever given to any man in the history of the United States, if not the world at large."
This is both obviously biased and obviously bullshit. Your father's not that witty. Neither are you.

"These moves couldn’t be of a petty, partisan, political nature, could they?"
You mean like everything you say?

"By the way, opening relations with China was, of course, wrong."
You still haven't substantiated this, although Mr. Alec keeps asking you to.

There are plenty more, but I promised myself I'd only waste five or ten minutes on this post. In short, you suck at making arguments well, or even getting your point across.

At 10:09 PM, Blogger Alec Brandon said...

I like that first quote the best. So true.

-Mr. Alec

At 3:44 AM, Blogger Republican Dan said...

Of course that "first quote" is the only one that is an incomplete sentance, which makes it unlike all the quotes that I used. All of the other quotes you use from my writing are completely reasonable. Of course, all you have to do to show me as wrong on this issue is to find the 'complete' quotes that I reference in my piece and show how I have taken them out of context in such a way that the meaning is changed. Go on and prove your point, if you can. I'll respond to these other people when they make an argument that makes it worth my time.

At 8:27 AM, Blogger Alec Brandon said...

How on earth can you ensure that a quote is a complete sentence when it was given orally? You claim all of your quotes are complete sentences, well all we have to base that upon is the subject and verb, just like the Origamist's fabulous quote of yours about juries.

Second of all, a number of your quotes are outrageous. You claim, well they are fine. Stupid examples include how opening relations with China was a bad thing. Now I provided defenses of every quote you provided. That is called an arguement. The Origamist attacked your quotes, you said, "well they are all correct."

My response, is, "no, god no, they are not correct, not one single one of them." Your job is to substantiate that, something you are rather averse to, irrationality though is rarely substantiated. Hope that works out for you, the army may be the best place for you after all.

-Mr. Alec

At 12:45 PM, Blogger R said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

At 12:47 PM, Blogger R said...

Why does your ego always get in the way of 1) Participating in an interesting argument or 2) Admitting you're wrong? (God forbid)

Take your precious time that you claim to have none of and answer these people's questions.

At 1:57 PM, Blogger SinaMoravej said...

hell i am sina moravej. representative from the democratic club to discuss the debate with your brother. I have been having trouble because your brother insists on 4 man debate teams, but of course that is not a debate its a free for all. I have Dr.S (debate team leader) on my side because we're doing it debate team style. Josh keeps claiming that he already negotiated which was a big misunderstanding that we will not get over. If you want to have the debate then i suggest you guys stop stalling so we can set up the dates. school is almost done

At 1:57 PM, Blogger SinaMoravej said...

contact me on my email:
or my aim sn: Prsiangodfather
thank you

At 2:42 PM, Blogger Republican Dan said...

Mr. Alec, I was obviously not referring to sentances that were gramatically complete -- I was talking about sentances that did not have parts deliberately chopped off (for example, removing "By this logic" from the beginning of my line about jurors). You have, of course, failed to substantiate your claim that I have changed the meaning of the phrases that I quote in my article. If I am as wrong as you suggest, you should prove it by getting the complete quotes and showing the world how I took them out of context. Prove me wrong. I dare you to!

At 3:51 PM, Blogger Alec Brandon said...

Ooooo, a debate. Sina if you want any backing on any debate style I would love to support you. Although if they are insistent on a 4 person team setup, such a style exists, it is called British Parliamentary. I have never done it, but it is the way most of the world debates (outside of the US). Here is a run down of how it works:
Debate is my life and someday, the Amity Debate Society will take over the day at a time.

Anyways, Dan, I didn't say you were wrong about the quotes. I think we have all been saying, its really easy to manipulate quotes. Also, considering that you did not get those quotes from the original speeches, it is easy for your sources to merely be excerpts, that is all anyone is saying.

However, I made that claim, and then took every quote, assumed they were not out of context, and argued why they were legitimate. You then responded to your ridiculous quotes with a mere assertion that you were correct. Arguementation does not work by fiat. Substantiate the things you say.

I am going to repeat this a couple more times, because the first 800 times I have told you to do it have not seemed to work, so here we go.

You never substantiate anything you say. If you want us to believe your warped beliefs, please substantiate them. You are so wrong, so often, that it would make sense for you not to provide an explanation for them, but if you ever want to be able to convince anyone of anything, that will not work. Holy [poop] why do are you so obtuse, just attempt to explain to us why you are right, and you will realize how wrong you are.

So in attempt to copy your style, I am going to make a baseless claim, along the lines of your China arguement.

"All Republicans are gay, they all have sexual intercourse with other men, and quite frequently. Everyone knows it. The Mayor of Spokane was a Republican and he turned out gay, so all Republicans must be gay. The bible condemns gays, so we must burn all Republicans. May god be with you all."

-Mr. Alec

At 3:53 PM, Blogger Commander Mike said...

In the real world, he who makes the claims bears the burden of proof. He who attacks the claims has no such burden.

The burden of proof is on you, bud. Or do things work different in conservative-land?

You avoid rational debate. You pick and choose the arguments you ignore and the ones you reply to, and you even can't do that properly. Coward.

At 6:10 PM, Blogger Alec Brandon said...

Not to mention I deconstructed every quote you provided anyways...gar.

-Mr. Alec

At 6:46 PM, Blogger Theorigamist said...

Republican Dan, your entire response to my post was essentially that I took your quotes out of context. Thanks, Captain Obvious. I said I was taking your quotes out of context (although some, like the China quote, were absolutely not out of context) to prove a point. Apparently that was way over your head. Here it is, explicitly: you didn't provide any context either, thus whatever argument you imagine you've made is non-existent to any reader of your post. If you want us to take you seriously, then give a reference for every quote you used in your post, then let us respond to content and have an actual argument. Instead, you're just being a tool.

By the way, while I appreciate that the last sentence of your response implies that my argument was worth your time (whatever that's worth), I hardly think that's fair. Mr. Alec has made much better arguments than mine. I was just insulting your intelligence, or lack thereof. Furthermore, none of your arguments are worth any of our time, but we still reply. The least you could do is attempt to substantiate your claims when we've spent our time shooting them down.

At 7:59 PM, Blogger SinaMoravej said...

thanks mr alec
but we wanna do it simple and the style debate team does it
none of us are familiar with the parliamentry

At 8:23 PM, Blogger Alec Brandon said...

Nor am I, but just throwing it out there. Hope that works out well.

Damn, why does debate have to end over summer.

-Mr. Alec

At 10:59 AM, Blogger Alec Brandon said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

At 11:02 AM, Blogger Alec Brandon said...

Alright, briefly on this issue of sources. You write this blog. When you write an essay, do you prompt the teacher with the challenge, "I dare you to sift through the world of knowledge, find my sources, and then find that I used them incorrectly"? I can venture a guess that you don't, because you would not be graduating from high school because plagurism is such a big deal.

Now this post, you provide a litany of quotes, but you give no location of the quotes give, no date that they were said, all you say is that they were said by the person who may or may not have said them. That is not citing your sources. Oddly enough you have cited sources in the past, on your post about Ted Kennedy and the KGB.

So this comment board challenges your source material, it is not our job to go venture out and find your sources, it is your job to present them. You fail to understand this basic tenant of discourse when you challenge us to prove you wrong. That is just not how it works buddy.

My bet is that you just got all these quotes from some conservative website that houses, what it feels are ridiculous quotes. You copy and pasted, and you had a post done (notice how the citation of the authors of the various quotes varies from speaker to speaker, meaning the copy and pasting may have been done on two or three different websites).

But even worse is that while you dare us to go on a wild goose hunt for your sources, you fail to respond to any of my arguements rationalizing the "ridiculous" quotes you provided us with.

You do not cite, you do not substantiate, you do not acknowledge faults in your arguements, you can not even elucidate a clear purpose for your posts. Your silence only exacerbates your short comings. You may have wet-dreams of punditry in your future, but you make G. Gordon Liddy look rational, and that is hard to pull off!

-Mr. Alec

At 11:07 AM, Blogger Commander Mike said...

I wonder why Dan is posting these silly blog posts. To impress his peers, maybe.

Okay, peers. Any peers of Dan who are impressed, please raise your hand.


At 2:37 PM, Blogger R said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

At 7:33 PM, Blogger L said...

My hand is raised Commander Mike. If you aren't impressed, then why do you waste so much time every week responding to rd's blogs and making yourself look like a complete tool?

At 10:23 PM, Blogger Alec Brandon said...

He is liberating this blog.

-Mr. Alec

At 10:42 PM, Blogger Commander Mike said...

And the sole supporting peer quickly demonstrates that his support is worthless, because he is dumb.

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